Public dialogue about the things important to our community is healthy. However, we need some practice to learn how to do that in a civil manner. We don’t all have to agree on everything. Having a civil discourse means being willing to listen respectfully to opposing sides of an issue.
It’s certainly okay to challenge the content of someone’s argument. Here’s an example: “I disagree with your statement that tax increment financing is detrimental to our city’s economy; I think a TIF district provides important incentives for drawing new industry, jobs, and families to our community”.
A civil discourse breaks down when, instead of addressing the elements of the person’s argument, the person him/herself is maliciously attacked. I know, that’s pretty common. Some people haven’t improved much on their argument skills since they were eight years old, when their disagreements went like this:
“I want to play kickball.”
“No! I want to play Red Rover!”
“We always do what you want to – we should take turns deciding.”
“Yeah? Well, you’re stupid, and ugly… and you walk funny!!”
I think its worth the effort to be uncommon. As individuals, its important to leave our childish behavior behind, to mature and grow. As a community, its equally important to mature in our social and cultural disciplines. There will be a lot of opportunities ahead of us here in Fergus Falls to work on our practice of civil discourse.
I think we can learn to regulate our emotions while we examine important issues from all sides to determine the best course of action. I think we can find ways to compromise, and even when we can’t find compromise, we can always disagree respectfully.
Daryl
It is funny that you say that but when someone has a different view than yours you dont want to leave those comments on your site.Now if this freedom.I have the right to say how I see it, But 3 times today you have taken off my comments. I disagree with you on many issues and was happy with the old council. Why remove that? Because it is not your view? So you can throw down people and the council and no one can voice against you. That is going against what you claim you stand for. I’m sure the journal will like to here this.
Thanks for your comments, Joan; I appreciate your differing viewpoint. I am okay with conflicting viewpoints being expressed here. However, I will not edit anyone’s comments, so because your previous comments had additional unsavory content, I simply did not allow them to post as a whole. I emailed you an explanation of why I would not post your comments, but the email address you listed was returned as “does not exist – undeliverable”.
Your current comment is not malicious toward a person, so I have no problem with it posting.
While you are free to express your views, you do not have absolute freedom to say anything on this site. I screen all comments and refuse to allow the posting of any comments which are malicious toward a person or slanderous in nature. You will find several comments throughout this site from folks who respectfully voice their disagreement with me.
But you will not see the comments which agreed OR disagreed with me in a way which is vitriolic or caustic to the process of building community.
Here is my email please email your reasons. I still son’t understand. What you did to the current council for months was accuse of them of backdoor meetings and such. You can go back to your post on the journal until you had to give your real name, you had post that were attacks on certain people and groups. So what gives you the right to do that but won’t post certain items. You are doing the exact thing you claim the council did, not be honest and not letting the voice of the people be heard. I am a voice of fergus falls that happens not to agree with you. My last post gave credit to the council for what they have done and for being progressive. I stated that Fergus has grown only by 600 people since 1940. So I guess it is ok for one group to use thier power while accusing another of doing that????
I hear Joan’s voice loud and clear.
I hear that Joan was happy with the old (current) city council, and wants to give them due credit for the progress they made with the ice arena.
I hear that Joan would like the journal to hear this discussion.
I hear that Joan is angry that I did not allow 3 of her previous comments to post, and that she feels that because I have taken a stand on the voter’s responsibility and right to be heard in local government, that I am morally obligated to allow her to say anything she wants to on my site.
I hear that Joan disagrees with my views on building community, responsible citizenship, and limitations on government.
I hear Joan loud and clear.
Joan, I hope you feel like your voice has been heard, here on “Your Voice Counts”.
I agree with you Daryl. Free speech is a freedom granted by the Constitution and enforced by the government. That means that Joan Larsen has the right to voice her opinion in the public square. She has no such right on your private web site or my private web site.
The only place I would differ from you is that I would have given her free reign to make a complete and utter fool of herself, the more she writes the deeper she digs herself.
Her miss-use of the facts here and at the paper is legendary, She has a very vivid imagination and is unrestrained in abusing it.
So here is my offer to you Ms. Larsen, you may come on my site and make the most ridiculous incendiary silly statements and I will post them unaltered. I will only require proof that you are who you say you are. I will do that by requiring you submit the very same comment the second time from your new email address after I email you my email address. You can say anything you want, but I don’t want anyone else but you to get the blame or credit as the case may be.
You should be forewarned however, unlike Daryl, I’m not a nice person. While I’m civil, even to dissenting opinions, the very moment you stretch the truth or make some improvable statement I will jump down your throat with both feet. If necessary I will use language that both you and the seventh fleet will understand.
Free speech comes at a price and on my site that price is the unfettered, whole truth.
So if you want the opportunity you claim the address is chipmunk-inc.tumblr.com/ on your Google search toolbar.
Chipmunk
So Chipmunk, since that is not your real name. You do what you have a accused the council of doing. But it is ok for you and Daryl to do that and no one else can say a word. It just show your true colors that is all. For months we have seen your post and attacks and then when some one doesn’t agree with you both, we can’t be heard. Hum????
You should know not afraid of what you can dish out, makes you a big man huh??? All I ask is that you let people who disagree with you voice the views. I thought that was what this voice of the people was for. I don’t care if you don’t post my post the journal does and people will see who you guys are all about. I didn’t know you choose my freedom>
Joan Larsen, I guess my offer contained to many restrictions for you. Namely that you prove that you are Joan Larsen. Oh yes, there was that other little thing you hate so much. That I might argue with you when you engage in rumor and innuendo. I understand that being held to such a high standard as telling the truth is indeed burdensome. Well, at least we now know your limitations.
Have a nice day
Chipmunk
Joan, when will you actually begin to discuss your views on real issues? I understand from your many posted comments here on this site that you want to defend the current city council’s actions. It would be interesting to hear your defense in terms of broad-based principles – not just because you think an ice arena is good. The issues which this site is concerned about are:
~ Representative local government
~ Accountability of representation
~ Voter trust and civic leadership
~ Voter participation/civic duty
~ Building/strengthening community
I’m very interested in lively discussion about these issues, and would appreciate anyone’s participation.
So let talk about these things. Again I trusted the council. And leadership is doing what is in the best interest of the community even if people are against what you think. That is what leaders do. Follower are those who listen to people who have no idea what it takes to run a city, business. I am sure you have to make hard decisions in your business that not everyone agrees with and you do it for the betterment of all.
That is why our founder fathers set up the system we have. I certainly could come in and say I think you should do this and that with your business. I have no idea about your business. That is why we elect people to do the work and research and make decisions for the good of the community.
I have been at the council meetings half the time no one shows up and then cries we didnt know.The ice arena was planned months and it was the agenda. I was at these meetings that on one cared to be at. And then on my goodness the city was pulling things are the city.
Watch it will go back to the norm and no one will come to meetings. If you are going to try to please the people who have no idea what it takes to run this city, you should no be on the council. It is like a parent who know better than thier teenage child
I think there are some significant differences between a private business and our government. Most importantly, as a private business Holiday Gas Station cannot threaten to take away my car if I don’t buy my gas from them to help them pay for the car wash they want to build to “serve” me.
But that is exactly what government can do (take our property) if we don’t want to pay the increased taxes that are assessed against the property to help pay for the “services” they choose to provide for us.
That is why the founding fathers considered it critically important to have built in checks and balances for all levels of government. It was important that citizens have the power to counter-check the process of government through regular elections and referendum. On the federal level they were careful to separate lawmaking and spending.
A lazy, irresponsible citizenry may result in an oppressive government, but it is never an excuse for it.
Didnt like the last one either, that was straight dicussion on what you said we could discuss????
Chill, Joan. Your comment was posted. I’m not always working on the computer, so it may take up to several hours (or even more) before a comment you submit gets posted. Please don’t take it personally.
First you didn’t post at all, then you didn’t post enough, and now you post too slowly. The next thing is you will post too fast.
Chipmunk
BTW Daryl, I demand that you post this comment three minutes before you get it.
It isn’t always the best course of action to just let elected leaders “do what is best for us,” without question. Sometimes they are led astray by special interests and internal connections. Well, always led astray. It would be a bit more fair if people like the MacFarlanes of Ottertail Power weren’t big hockey fans and pushing this straight through without any sort of public voice on the matter. And that’s just one example….
Also, my brain hurts after trying to decipher _what_ Joan is trying to say. All I get out of it is that she answers nothing and turns the question back around on the original poster. “I know you are but what am I?” ENUNCIATE, please.